Season 2, EP 3:
Francisco Joel Hernandez – YouTube Education and Creative Flash Techniques

Justin: Welcome to After the Shoot, a podcast where we take a peek behind the lens to get inspired by the stories, challenges, and ideas of some of the most successful photographers in the business. I’m Justin Benson from After Shoot and AI cuing and editing software that helps give photographers like you your time back so you can focus on what you do best while our magical unicorns.

Take care of the most boring and time consuming parts of your job. I’ll be your host for this podcast, and I’m so excited to have you here as we talk with some of my favorite creators. 

Francisco Joel: You shouldn’t have your subject facing away from the light. Sometimes when the natural light is so good. That’s why I’m like, I don’t need to fire the flash.

But, but there’s, but more often than that, I’m defaulting to like, I’m gonna bring a flash out. I always try to get my shot that I have envisioned. Um, very quickly it felt if it’s past three minutes, I felt like it’s taking too long. Let the pose dictate the lighting.[00:01:00] 

Justin: Today’s episode is all about Flash and YouTube. We’re sitting with Francisco Joel Hernandez, one of the best YouTube instructors on Flash. I personally learned so much from his channel. He breaks it down in such a simple and easy to navigate way. And I know that this podcast episode is going to be super insightful and give you a little hint of some of the amazing things you can learn.

Enjoy the show.

Welcome to after the shoot. I’m so excited to have you. Thank you for having me. Um, so I start these things off the same way every time, and my biggest question is, how’d you get started in photography? And kind of what was your journey through it? 

Francisco Joel: Um, I, I would like, like it to be more of an interesting story, but I feel like it’s usually the same way for a lot of people.

Um, the only difference is that I had nobody to help me. ’cause I feel like sometimes it’s like you learn it from like a father or grandfather. For me, I think I was a bit. Introverted growing up, [00:02:00] and I think at some point around like 10 or 11, uh, whenever I would accompany my mom to like CVS of Walgreens, I saw disposable camera.

And, uh, I had, I always had a little bit of an interest and I would get a couple of disposal cameras, like every, every so often, every couple weeks, whenever she would go and, you know, it was always. Interesting to capture kind of a, a scene, like a moment of time. So I think my initial spark was like that documenting kind of vibe.

Um, and then it kind of like was on the back burner ’cause, you know, school and, and in high school I kind of picked it up again ’cause of the yearbook, but I, I was very fortunate to pick it up exactly where I did. Because it was at a time where digital was just starting to get more like in the, in the, in the system, in the industry.

And um, I had a Canon rebel, I don’t know, TI or something. Yeah, one of those first ones. And I was just so, uh. In love with the fact that you can take a picture, see it, and if you don’t like it, delete it because what you couldn’t do with the [00:03:00] disposables, uh, so I, I think from there it just went to, I went to college, uh, where I was just focused on my degree and then immediately after I graduated I was like, you know what?

I wanna learn this lighting stuff ’cause. It looks so good when I see it in different areas, and I was starting to kind of realize that a lot of things that I liked in terms of like magazines or you know, promotional material for movies or tv, they used lighting and I in a way that I really liked and I wanted to learn that and crack that code and.

Over some time when I started to kind of feel like I was comfortable in that. Then I made my YouTube channel and other, you know, kind of, uh, you know, educational platforms like Instagram. They’re not educational, you know? 

Justin: I know what you’re saying. Yeah. It start like that. But I, I, I 

Francisco Joel: kind of make my Instagram, make my Facebook into educational platforms so that people can learn and I think it just kind of just steamrolled into that and led into other things.

Justin: That’s, 

Francisco Joel: that’s awesome. Long answer. Sorry guys. No, that’s, that’s, 

Justin: that’s exactly the answer. I mean, uh, that’s such an interesting journey, so it’s so, so cool [00:04:00] to see, you know, something that was kind of just something that piqued your interest or, or, or gave you a little passion and it grew into something so big, uh, and to the point that you can educate on it.

Francisco Joel: Yeah, that’s, 

Justin: it’s crazy. That’s, that’s really like, you know, you crack the code and, and for me, so I. I studied film. That was my, I studied lighting for film, so I had the code. Oh, see that’s what I wanted to do. Yeah. So I had that, like, that, that head start. Uh, and I always thought, I say it like my, my first wedding, I didn’t use off camera flash ’cause I didn’t know what I was doing.

My second wedding, which was just a year later, it was entirely off camera flash. So I was lighting my reception and everything. You 

Francisco Joel: were a click with it. I understood the 

Justin: light. I just didn’t have flashes. I didn’t know why I needed the flashes. I understood the light. So I could do like natural light. Yeah.

’cause that’s what I studied in film was like, what, what? Natural light is good. We have opposite path. What lighting works? Yeah. So we kind of flipped 

Francisco Joel: it. I, I tell people I learned the worst way where I, I knew, I knew natural light, you know, was part of the process, [00:05:00] but not to the understanding that I should have had with it.

And I just felt like, like for example, I thought you needed to use the lights at full power. That’s it. And so I would change my settings to that and I don’t even wanna say the camera settings that I had, but like, it’d be bright day, it’d be, I’d be ISO 1600 on my Nikon D 60 and or mechanic 60 D at that time.

And I was just like. No. So we You had a good, we had a flip. Yeah, 

Justin: you had a flip. I, I immediately knew lighting was super important and I had to incorporate it and everything. Um, but I had that good understanding of it, which I think is, is really beneficial. Appreciate, uh, it helps your, your work stand out so much.

Um, you know, I was just, just watching some of the, some of the photos that you posted recently and they’re just. So incredible. I, I noticed you’re, you’ve got such a, a knack for incorporating light and balancing it, and it’s really funny to hear that you did not 

Francisco Joel: before. Worst. That was the worst. Yeah. 

Justin: So that [00:06:00] journey, you were self-taught.

Mm-hmm. And now you really kind of devoted yourself to helping teach others. Yes. Yeah. 

Francisco Joel: And 

Justin: that’s such a, a unique position to be in. Um. Do you ever feel like there’s kind of some backlash on it? Like, do you feel that oof, I felt 

Francisco Joel: it very, very strongly when I was just starting to really figure out what kind of style I wanted to shoot with lighting.

Um, whenever I would share online in different photography groups on Facebook, um, it was always met with backlash. Like, whoa, you should have. You shouldn’t have your subject facing away from the light. You should have them facing towards the light, so it’s more realistic. And she comments like that over time.

I was just like, no, I like this kind of formula that I’m kind of just developing from my own stuff. And over time it actually got. To be very popular. I would say to pat myself on the back, like I was very kind of a, like a bit of a original kind of content creator with the lighting [00:07:00] and with the blurry background outdoors.

Um, me and a few other people that I saw on these different photography groups on Facebook were kind of just like. In love with that look and right now those other photographers don’t even do that anymore. But I was just, I just kept with it and I was like, I love soft light. I love to make that subject stand out with lighting further the background to also make them stand out.

Furthermore, and I just always, you know, had that in me where if, if I could get good at something, I wanna help others, you know, do that as well. Because there’s so many people out there that just tend to gate keep. And I always. I just did not like that vibe. I just felt like, you know, are you scared? Are you that I’m gonna take your business or are you scared to just teach others, or, and I, I never had that in me.

So as, as soon as I start to get better at something, I was like, Hey guys, I just learned how to do this. I wanna share it with you. And that’s just the way that my mind works. And that’s why I started to educate more and more, and that’s great. But their backlash great. 

Justin: Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, uh. So that was a trick [00:08:00] question because I know there’s backlash.

Um, so I, you just posted on Facebook like probably three or four days ago about somebody who said, why would you shoot at F1 0.4 with off camera flash? And, you know, and, but you’ve created a look for yourself. And I think it’s, it’s very, it’s a unique look and it’s beautiful and it’s stunning and so many people, uh, kind of, you know, just feel the need to.

Talk down towards other people or say, my technique is better. Yeah, do this, not 

Francisco Joel: that. 

Justin: Yeah, exactly. And, and your look is your look. That’s why people hire you. That’s why you are who you are. Yeah. 

Francisco Joel: It’s crazy. ’cause I think it’s on the, it’s kind of a similar note that when I was starting to learn more and I felt more confident, I would share more behind the scenes.

Uh, photos on different platforms and, um, a lot of people originally, like a lot of companies didn’t wanna do that for I think the same kind of reasons. Like, they’re like, well, I have a course and I don’t want to kind of spoil that course by showing them the light setup [00:09:00] and. It originally started off like that, but then I think over the years they started to see it as a good kind of advertisement, uh, you know, show the behind the scenes, but people still have questions afterwards, and then that’s when we can sell the course.

So it was, it became something that I definitely felt that a lot of people were shying away for on purpose, for a reasoning, for a reason. But then they started to think of it as a good way to advertise. So that was crazy. I did it just ’cause I’m a visual learner and I wanted people to see Exactly. See and understand.

Yeah. But then those companies changed their mind. Flip the switch, 

Justin: so. For people who don’t use flash, because I think that that’s a, there’s a, a big subset of the, of the community who just, you know, they’re not, whether they’re not comfortable, whether they’re not ready to it. Um, what would you say is like, kind of the, the baby steps?

Like how would somebody kind of get into it? Uh, obviously they gotta go watch YouTube, get my, well, 

Francisco Joel: and that’s a good. You know, I don’t wanna promote my YouTube, but I was thinking of doing like a series on, on my YouTube channel where I [00:10:00] talk about the basic camera settings. ’cause for me, I didn’t know those settings.

I didn’t, I didn’t know about my camera’s meter until years after I bought my camera. And I remember the, I was in San Antonio, I was leaving the store down the sidewalk. I picked up the meter and I was like, oh wow. What the, you know? But, um, I think. Honestly, just starting with the basics is the best thing you can do.

And that means like knowing exactly what shutter speeds, you know, will do to your camera’s exposure, the aperture, uh, also known as the F top. So there’s different things out there guys, but, um, just knowing those different, the exposure triangle s is honestly just the best thing that you can do because once you learn those and master those, you can either stick to using natural light and seeing, you know exactly how you can.

Adjust those things to get different looks with just natural light. And then for me, I never liked limitations. So when, when I, when I would. When I never liked the limitations. So whenever I start to get better with flash, [00:11:00] I thought, okay, you know what? Even though there’s harsh light and I want this background, when I use light, I can achieve this result without having to, you know, suffer that poor lighting.

So I just felt like that was just a great thing to do. Um, but, but yeah, that’s pretty, pretty much it. 

Justin: And that’s, I think one of the coolest things about off-camera flash is that we are not. Tied when, when you have off-camera flash in your pocket, you’re not tied to one situation. Sure. I oftentimes, like, you know, see images that I couldn’t create without off-camera flash.

’cause the light is bad or the background is really nice, but I can’t do something about it. Uh, and this is an easy way to, to kind of dive into that. Now I’m gonna take a stab at it, but I am gonna. Assume you’re really into HighSpeed sync. 

Francisco Joel: Yes. Okay. Um, so a lot of people don’t realize that one of the biggest reasons why I use, uh, high speed syn to begin with is ’cause even right now I know it’s ’cause I’m not nervous guys, [00:12:00] but I have shaky hands sometimes.

And you know, even before photography, I knew that my hands were. It’s a little too much. And before any of the latest cameras had like image stabilization and stuff, I felt like that was a big thing that was causing my images to be slightly blurry. Um, so then when I learned about, you know, high speed sink and what it could do, which is basically just allowing you to use a faster shutter speed than normal with flash, um, I was like, okay, cool.

It help with that. But it also helps with using white apertures, which I was really, you know, accustomed to, and I really liked for my own work. So it was kind of like a, a good dual feature for me, that stabilization. And also just being able to use those white apertures. But, but lately I’ve been using ND filters in my work, so, so I do tend to use those too.

Justin: Ah, that’s very interesting. So you’ve got a, a wide mix. Yes. Would you, would you deem yourself as a very technical person by trade, or is it something that you’ve learned through time? When I, 

Francisco Joel: when I do any sort of educational, like videos and stuff, I always try to avoid [00:13:00] technical speak because I feel like when I was trying to learn, there was people out there that were just very technical and it made me get frustrated and get disinterested and just feel like that frustration was.

That bad feeling. That negative feeling was pulling me away from photography. And I feel like there’s still ways to teach the same thing, but in a simpler terms. So whenever I make any sort of video, I always do my best to kind of give out the information so that anybody can digest it, even if they’re not a photographer, you know, I’ll be like, oh, you know, it’s gonna be this much so brighter.

You know, that’s a little technical, but I always try to keep it so that everybody can take in the information and learn. Because I just feel like once ticket becomes complicated that it’s gonna lose people. And I don’t want people to kind of be in disinterested in not just photography, but flash. ’cause I love flash, so I do my best to just try to make it easy to, to adjust.

Justin: It’s an important skill to have. I think every photographer. Needs to know it. Yeah. Just [00:14:00] to be able to know it. Exactly, yes, for sure. Whether or not you use it all the time. Uh, you know, when I teach my courses, the, the introductory slide is. Do I need flash? And that’s the first question I have to ask. Yes.

When I walk into a scene, is there really good natural light? Is it, do I need to unpack a stand? Put it on the soft box? That’s a very good 

Francisco Joel: question to start with. Yeah. Mean you, 

Justin: you have to, you have to know that if it’s important to have it or not. Yes. And there’s a reason to have it when you don’t need it sometimes.

Right. You wanna change the look of an image. Yeah. But if you are, you know, on a session. And it’s gonna be more of a burden to have flash than it would be to just use the natural light. Yeah. Would you take out the flash? Exactly. And the, the second slide of that presentation is a picture of a frog. I found a frog in my backyard, like a tree frog, and I took this picture of this frog and with natural light.

It was a really good photo. Yeah. I, being the person I am, took out the 26 inch soft box. Yeah. And then lit the frog and [00:15:00] made a photo that was no better than the natural light photo. Yeah. It, it just, it looked different and there was no reason for me to do that, but I did it. Right. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s where that question comes from is true.

I probably risk. Scaring the frog. I did the natural light photo first. Yeah. But I took out that because I thought, I know flash and I can make a better photo, but you don’t need it for everything. And knowing when to implement it and when not to implement it is important. 

Francisco Joel: I I, I’m glad you that you made that a point in your presentation.

’cause that’s very true. For me, it’s always a bit of a default to bring out my flash, even though like, I know the light. Like sometimes when the natural light is so good, that’s where I’m like. I don’t need to fire the flash, but, but there’s more, more often than that. I’m defaulting to like, I’m gonna bring a flash out.

But there are sometimes my wife knows ’cause she’s the one that holds my light, that sometimes I just, um, I’m like, I’m just very appreciative of how that natural light looks like. It’s just so good. Usually, usually around golden an hour, the, the peak, the tail end of it. [00:16:00] Yeah. 

Justin: Yeah. ‘

Francisco Joel: cause like all the exposures are kind of like on the same level, so you get all the information from the shadows and the, you know, the sunset.

So it’s like, I don’t need my flash. 

Justin: Yeah. But I will get it a little bit. You may damage the image more by adding flash in. Yeah. Because then you’re adding that hot point, or, you know, you’ve changed the dynamic, so, yeah. Um, you know, your, your work is so natural, so it, it really, you know. It doesn’t look like you have flash in all of the photos because the light is so soft, it’s so balanced.

Uh, it’s, it’s inspirational because a lot of, I think a lot of photographers walk into a scene and say, oh, when I add flash, it looks like flash. It looks like, yeah, true, 

Francisco Joel: true. 

Justin: How do you, how, what’s like the, the process to making it look more natural? 

Francisco Joel: So, um, a lot of people, I’ll start off with like night, nighttime photo shoots because I think that’s something that a lot of people kind of.

It’s harder for them to grasp that because you’re doing the exact opposite of like the daytime. So for nighttime, you’re really bringing up that [00:17:00] iso, slowing the show speed just a little bit, still using the white aperture. But, um, it’s always a matter of kind of like a balance that I’m aiming for. And I know you’re saying how do I achieve the balance?

But I’m like, oh, well, we’ll balance it. But it’s like, um, for example, if it’s like a bright, sunny day and you, you need a lot of power to kind of match that intensity or if it’s, you know, later in the afternoon where there’s like. Less intense sunlight, like golden hour, the, the tail end of golden hour.

’cause sometimes at the beginning it’s still pretty strong, but um, um, you kind of just wanna match the intensity with your lighting. So sometimes that can benefit you because if you’re shooting like at nighttime for example, and you don’t need a lot of power at all, like I just made it real and Instagram where I was using my light and a lot of people were like, oh dang, this, that light might be, must be really strong.

I was shooting at night. I didn’t need much power at all. I knew I was like at 1 2 56, which is the like the lowest on that light. But a lot of people just kind of had this in their mind that, oh, you had it at full like a, at a very high output. But I think so, I think people need to realize that [00:18:00] sometimes when you’re working with at night.

Because of that low intensity, you can adjust your settings so that you can use less flash, like just the, the tiniest bit. And, but it’s gonna be the opposite case in the daytime. Very bright sunlight. You wanna match that intensity more because. For me, I don’t like limitations. So if I wanna, you know, really kind of bring down that ambient, then I want to have that strong light to be able to adjust my camera settings to get, you know, more of that subject and focus with that lighting.

But it’s, it’s always gonna be about matching the kind of, the ambient that. That you’re working in. I think that’s pretty much the summary of it. Yeah. Sorry for the long answer again, guys. That’s 

Justin: good. So do you, um, I’m weird. Mm-hmm. So my presentation is very, it’s not gonna teach people how to use flash the way that most people will.

Okay. Um, do you generally like, take an exposure first of your subject and then add in flash afterwards? Yes. 

Francisco Joel: Yeah. Um, I, I actually try to always. [00:19:00] Do like one shot in, you know, whenever I’m doing a photo shoot for educational purposes. So just take a shot without the light on firing and then add the light because I feel like.

For me, when I was seeing stuff, you know, educational stuff, which wasn’t very common at all in 2011 to 14 when I was learning, like I would see the like very rarely, like a behind the scenes setup, but I was always curious, okay, what exactly is the light doing? So that’s why I always try to take a shot without the light firing and then with the light firing.

And if it’s a mul, definitely if it’s a multi, uh, mul, multiple lights set up, I always try to take one with like different. You know, just building on the lighting so that people can know exactly how it’s, you know, built because, uh, I think that really helps them really kind of digest the information more.

So, yeah, that, that’s, 

Justin: that’s a good one. So I teach people the weird way. I, I do it all at once. Oh, okay. So I found that. When I, I walk into a room, I kind of know the settings. Like I could look at you and say, oh, I’m [00:20:00] going to set my ISO to 500 and my shutter speed’s gonna be one 200th of a second, and I’ll shoot at F 2.8 and I’ll get a rough exposure of you.

And then I literally, without any more questions, I dive in. I don’t take the test shot, I just set my settings and put the flash next to you and say, okay, I’m gonna start in the middle. And I found, I, I, I, for me, this, this learning style, uh, helped me a lot. Mm-hmm. Because. I was able to understand the adjustments that I was making.

Yeah. They all coincide. Yes. So if I take that photo of you and you are too bright, I know I have to lower my flash power. Mm-hmm. But if I take that photo of you and the background is too dark, I have to make an adjustment to both the flash power. And so because they’re all tied to each other, my brain just wrapped itself around that concept a little bit better.

Where? Okay. Subject’s too bright. I’m gonna lower my aperture. Yeah. But my background’s too dark. Okay. So I can’t do that. I 

Francisco Joel: do that a lot. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Francisco Joel: I [00:21:00] just, I don’t think I usually, like she, my wife or whoever’s with me at first, shoot, I’m here like, okay. Probably like 2.8. I’m at F two now, so that means I need to adjust.

My iso, that means the shutter speed. And if I’m using a filter, then maybe just adjusted there. So I think it’s like, uh, what’s it called? Like being able to kind of, uh, juggle different things that multitask is what I’m trying to say. Yeah. So I, I, I always prided myself in that feature. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Francisco Joel: Um. It’s playing video games like Guitar Hero or DDDR where you have to know, see all the different things.

But I always prided myself in that. So whenever I do a photo shoot, I always try to do, like, I always try to get my shot that I have envisioned, um, very quickly. I felt if it’s past three minutes, I feel like it’s taken too long and I always just try to get that. That shot there because, um, I pride myself in that ability to multitask the settings, the lighting and all that stuff.

Yep. So I do the same thing. I just don’t, don’t usually vocalize. 

Justin: Got it. Yeah. So my, my entire like teaching process, my slides break down to that, where [00:22:00] it actually is explaining the only modifications you can make. Right. So if I were outside and it’s full sun, my ISO is at 100. If I’m not using HighSpeed syn income at F 16 or f.

You know, 12 or somewhere in that range, and my settings are set. There’s, that’s it. The flash is at full power. When I take that first shot, the first test shot, there’s only so many adjustments I can make. If my subject’s not bright enough, I can only move my flash closer. If my background is too dark, I can decrease the aperture a little bit, but now my flash is gonna be brighter.

Yeah. ’cause I’m letting more light in, so I have to make multiple adjustments. Yes. But my mind just kind of always went that way. Yeah. And I think, you know, as somebody who’s always worried about what. People think, yes, when I have a client in front of me and I take a test shot and it didn’t work, being able to adjust it all at once makes it feel like it’s a lot faster than if I’m like, oh, I took a test shot, now I’m gonna add in the flash.

Like, I’m worried my clients are looking at me like, [00:23:00] does he actually know what he’s doing? Or 

Francisco Joel: I, I agree with you. If I were ever in a situation where they’re like, take a good photo in less than a minute, then I’m like, okay. Uh, I would do exactly what you said. Like, alright, 2.8, uh, ISO 100. Uh, two 50 a second and maybe use the in D filter.

Maybe not. And I would do all that internally to just get that result right away. So I think yeah, there’s truth exactly to what you’re saying. Yeah. You wanna be able to just deliver right away. 

Justin: Deliver right away. I like the challenge and not fear. Yeah. Not, not fear the, the, the client. Yeah. Because I think that’s the, you know, the important thing when you’re getting started with flash, if you fumble a little bit.

You are? Uh, I think so many of us just have that anxiety of like, they’re watching me. Oh my, and I’m not in the beginning. Yeah. They’re watching me and I don’t know what I’m doing and something’s gonna be terrible. So, uh, having that kind of in your pocket to speed it up, I think is really helpful. Um, when it comes to, to your sessions, you obviously use a lot of flash.

Um, that’s, that’s by [00:24:00] design, that’s your style. Um, do you find that when you’re doing. Flash work, uh, you are doing multiple poses in a location, like how do you really expedite it? Are you having an assistant that just follows people around? Uh, 

Francisco Joel: so I, I, I don’t know how other people work, but for me, um, whenever I’m working in a specific location, like a park for example, I always try to arrive there early for, for one and try to figure out like, okay, if I’m delivering 10 images, it depends, you know, what you’re delivering.

If I’m delivering 20 images, then I’m like, okay, I want. Six different spots. Maybe a average of two shots, like two winner shots in those spots, and then that’s 12 images. Or, you know, if I want to aim for more images, then I would choose a little bit more locations. Um, but a lot of people, whenever I, I need to make a video on this, but um, when it comes to like location scouting, I always keep that in mind.

Like, okay, how can I get a lot of different types of images in this limited space? Like, you know, hopefully it’s not too super limited. [00:25:00] But, but, uh, I always try to keep that in mind, like, okay. This many amounts of, you know, this different types of spots here in the same location. That’s not too far. And also I kind of try to keep it in a line so that, you know, you’re not walking all the way over here and then here, but then, oh wait, I saw something over here again.

So I always try to keep it like, you know, progress slowly towards, you know, going the 

Justin: final 

Francisco Joel: Yeah. Day one. Yeah. Yeah. So, so nobody’s having to waste energy going in circles and stuff, but yeah, it just, it’s always. In this location, this many spots, maybe two to three maybe shots in that spot, and then go to the next spot immediately after.

And that multitasking comes in handy. ’cause I’m taking a shot and at this one spot and I’m thinking about the next location. Yeah. So I’m always, you’re already, you’re already a 

Justin: step ahead Yeah. On what you’re doing. Yes. That’s really cool. So this is like a. Chicken before the egg question. So do you, because you have these i, these locations in mind, right?

So when you, when you go, you prec scout, you kind of know [00:26:00] where you’re gonna go. Yeah. Are you pre conceptualizing the pose or are you placing the light where it’s convenient and adjusting the pose towards the light? 

Francisco Joel: It’s a, it’s a little bit of both because. I think that even if you knew exactly how the model looked like and the outfit that they’re wearing and the colors and the lighting of the location, sometimes inspiration can hit you outta nowhere.

And then, you know, like an, you know, a light might shine through and you’re like, Ooh, that looks cool. Interesting. Or like, I think it was yesterday. Here in this spot when I was walking, you know, into the building, like, um, a strong sunlight was hitting like a building and reflecting light. And I was like, oh, you know, even if I had not thought about that or seen it, um, if it happened at the shoot, then I would probably incorporate it.

So it could change, it could definitely change the vibe of, of a shoot with that, with that random inspiration. But I do try to keep. A good plan in hand because it’s just better than winging it. And there, there, in my early stages of doing photo shoots, I was like, [00:27:00] lemme just wing it. And I, and then, you know, I was comfortable enough to, to, with posing and lighting that I could actually deliver a good image.

But it, it just doesn’t really deliver a lot of confidence in the, in the subject when you’re like, uh, you’re doing a lot of, uh, I think, you know, you wanna be the opposite of that. So I think having that plan eliminates that, or at least reduces it greatly. So I think it’s good to have that plan, but I do definitely let inspiration hit, especially when the subject does like an a pose on accident.

Like they, they might be sitting at this chair and then they do something like this, and I’m like, oh, that looks interesting. Let me try to use that. So, yeah, I let inspiration hit me whenever, whenever comes, 

Justin: so, all right, so then in that case, are you putting your subject in position and then adding the light, or are you adding the light and then putting your subject in?

Francisco Joel: I always let the pose kind of dictate my lighting because I feel like the pose and the expression are stronger than like the light. Obviously lighting is extremely important, but I feel like ex good [00:28:00] expression and matching the energy of that expression is. Is equally important. So if you want to have, if the, if the person is very, like, has a very dramatic look to them and you, you give them like dramatic hose, you don’t wanna do like a very evenly lit, you know, very over, very 

Justin: flat and boring like image boring, boring.

You 

Francisco Joel: wanna add, you know, match that energy. Yeah. So I try, I try my best to kind of. Let the pose dictate the lighting. Uh, and there’s there’s times where I work for the subject and I, and I get a good shot, like with them facing this way. And then, and then she’s like, oh, can I, can I try this? And then it’s a great pose.

And then I’m like, okay. I tell my wife, all right, vis, can you switch the lights? So, because the main light was here, and if she’s facing this way now, then obviously it’s gonna be a little bit more dramatic. Yeah. Yeah. So I need that light to move. So I do definitely let the pose dictate the lighting. I definitely do 

Justin: that.

Oh, that’s cool. This was such an interesting conversation. I mean, it’s, you know, I’m, I’m not a flash nerd, I guess. I’m not calling you a Flash nerd either, but I’m, you know, for, for me, I’m 

Francisco Joel: Spiderman shirt, 

Justin: but. But [00:29:00] like, uh, you know, for, for me, I, I, I love lighting, I love flash, I love technicalities of it all.

Um, same, but it’s, it’s always nice to talk with someone else who has that same feeling and that same opinion, and kind of likes to play with light and Yeah. And do something unique. So, uh, it was really just a, an awesome conversation. Yeah, I agree. Your YouTube is where all the good stuff is at. Oh yeah. So that’s, that’s where people need to go and tune in and they can get the tutorials and walk.

Through it and kind of get a better 

Francisco Joel: things. Yes. S are coming soon, guys, somewhere. Well, 

Justin: there you go. I mean, that’s perfect. Uh, that’s, that’s what everybody needs. So it, it is really, it, it’s a fantastic channel because it is so educational. There’s no gatekeeping or anything, so No, never, ever. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s important because this industry, there is some gatekeeping out there and, and it’s nice to have again, just another person having in the same boat as you.

Yeah. My knowledge is your knowledge. So let’s all work together and share it. Yeah, 

Francisco Joel: I think the last thing I would say with that same note is that whenever I would see gatekeeping, it would probably kind of [00:30:00] spark in me the op, you know, teach that with their gatekeeping. So I would, I would be like, no, I wanna show ’em that.

Um, in one little series I have in my channel, I, I kind of put on the back burner a little bit, but it was, um, building the shot and I was showing every shot that I took at that photo shoot. That got to that one final image that I really loved and shared online. Like I share all the mess ups that happened up to that point and exactly explain the settings, you know, the thought process behind it, because I think that also helps with transparency and I, I always try to be the person that I, you know, want to see out there or be the change you wanna see.

Yep. Um, so I, I feel. Transparency is not as common. It’s not as prominent in the field, in the industry that I wish it would be. Um, so I just try to be that change like I wanna be. Yeah, I love that. I wanna be transparent 

Justin: and you’re gonna that, and that’s the thing. Yeah. That’s, that’s why the hate comes, right?

So, so, so we, that’s how we started this. We bookend this conversation with, that’s, you know, your, your honesty, your [00:31:00] truthfulness. You know what a lot of people. Present themselves as photographers who landed at the top and their images are top tier. They 

Francisco Joel: never take 

Justin: a bad photo. But, but we all take bad photos.

I know. That’s the thing. All do the thing we all do. We all have a process. We work through things. Yeah, exactly. That’s, I got a ton that are, that are sitting in the, on the computer that no one will ever see, but we all work towards an end goal, so, uh, I truly appreciate the time. Yeah. Thank you all so much for tuning in.

Uh, be sure to tune into the next episode of After the Shoot. Bye everyone. Thanks. Thanks for tuning into after the shoot. Got any burning questions for today’s guest or just wanna keep the conversation going? Drop us a comment if you’re on YouTube or join the after shoot community to share your thoughts.

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