Season 2, EP 6:
Erika Lax on Attracting Your Dream Clients

Justin: Welcome to After the Shoot, a podcast where we take a peek behind the lens to get inspired by the stories, challenges, and ideas of some of the most successful photographers in the business. I’m Justin Benson from After Shoot and AI cuing and editing software that helps give photographers like you your time back so you can focus on what you do best.

While our magical unicorns take care of the most boring and time consuming parts of your job. I’ll be your host for this podcast, and I’m so excited to have you here. As we talk with some of my favorite creators, 

Erika Lax: they forgot about us and enjoy the wedding, and this is, for me, this is super important because sometimes the, the couples are super focused in the, the photographers or something like that and lose all about the energy, about enjoy the wedding.

This is, it’s super frustrating because sometimes it’s okay. The flowers, when they finish, the one that they finish, the flowers. Will be that we would And that’s it. Photography. Yeah. And the [00:01:00] photography. 

Justin: That’s the only thing that will always be there, will be 

Erika Lax: alive. Uh, and. The past of the years will be, uh, more stronger than, than the the first years.

Justin: Today’s episode is all about being insightful so that you can really niche down your business and take on those clients that you love. We were so fortunate to be able to sit with the incredible Erica Lax. Victor is incredibly creative and exciting photographer, and Erica has that same energy, but she was able to take that beautiful creativity and actually funnel it into a business strategy, which allowed them to take on the clients that love them and focus all their energy on being the photographers.

They want to be creative, insightful, and super excited to be attending every single event they photograph. So if you wanna learn how to niche down your business and really focus in to get those ideal clients, today’s episodes for you, enjoy the show.

Uh, in the past you may [00:02:00] have seen an amazing, uh, interview with the incredible Victor Lax and unfortunately. At that time, the lovely young lady sitting next to me was having a baby, so she was unable to be at our retreat in Peru. Um, but I was so excited to be able to sit down with Erica. So Erica, you are the incredible wife of Victor lax.

Yes. Um, and. I had heard so much about you. I had gotten to meet you, but I didn’t get to actually sit down and have this really intimate conversation, um, because I came to find out that you are heavily involved in a lot of what Victor does. So, uh, he’s an incredible artist of course, but I also heard that even you like walk up to him and whisper in his ear like, Hey, did you see the, the light in the corner over there and whatnot.

So, so as a team, you guys are really. The together. Yes. You guys are a great team and I think that’s why I’m so excited for this conversation because it’s easy for us [00:03:00] to, uh, to say, Hey, my wife will be a second shooter, or whatever it is. But you guys are actually really like a co-joined team. Uh, and with that being said.

He’s the creative and you’re kinda like the business person behind it as well. So that is, is so valuable, right? To, to be able to talk to the business woman. I always start with the basic question, how did you get involved in photography? 

Erika Lax: Uh, thanks Victor, because I am architect. I study architect, but during the crisis in Spain mm-hmm.

Um, I lost my job and start to, to find my, to find my way because, uh, it was very, very difficult for me. I’m frustrated because I love architecture. I love the creative, the, the way, the, the creative way on all these things. But, um. But in one moment, uh, Victor, uh, tell me that, Hey, can you help me In [00:04:00] some weddings, you can shoot only the, the on Sunday, and after that you can feel free to, to, to find your, uh, new job or whatever.

And we start to, to do this. But uh, the first weddings was, wow, this, this nice. No, he is, he is super creative. He is, I am. Feel free, I am, feel good and, and start to be involved. I in the. In all these, these things. The first weddings, Victor don’t, uh, teach me anything about, uh, light, about anything because she said to me, you have a background.

You are architect, you know about light, you know about the, uh, the, the environment, all about this. You only, you have to, to shoot and start to, to find your way because I don’t want to, to teach you and you, uh, and tell you what do you do, because I am Victor Latz. I am. I, I am very, um, I don’t know that the style is [00:05:00] very, very clear.

So I, I want that you find your, your, your path to make something different than me or whatever, but is is in your, in your way. So we start to shooting only the Sundays. And after that, Victor say, Hey, can you help me in the booking weddings or, or in the slideshows? And I start to mix more and more and more.

And one year, uh, the after one year, uh, I start to, to be part of the, the team because I, I love to involve 10% on when, when we start something I, I can, I can make a little. I don’t know. The the, 

Justin: you can’t just give a little Yes. You have to give a lot. Yes, 

Erika Lax: exactly. Yeah. And, and we start to be very, very focused in, in the business and all this stuff.

Um, and the first, the first years I am, [00:06:00] I was very secure because Victor is a fa, not famous, but he is a very important person in the industry. 

Justin: He’s famous, you can say it, 

Erika Lax: uh, or so I. 

Justin: I mean people from around the world. And this is something that, this is something that’s so, yeah. Something that’s so, uh, cool.

And that’s why this conversation is awesome because Victor’s somebody that anywhere Victor goes, yes, people hire him. Yes. Right? So like we went to our retreat in, we did the retreat in Peru and people paid him to Yes. They’re like, Hey, Victor’s gonna be there. I wanna hire him for my session. Yes. Um, so.

Wherever he goes, his creativity, all of those things. He’s very well known and very unique and special in the industry. Uh, and to, to get to this intimate glimpse, into the things that, I mean, our talk with him was all about, like how to discover that creativity and that sort of stuff. And what I just, what you just said, something that was hysterical to me is that he just said, go 

Erika Lax: Yes.

Justin: Find your own way. 

Erika Lax: Yes, because for [00:07:00] me, the first years was very hard because all the people trust Victor. And don’t trash me. It’s, yeah. Okay. Just a second shooter. It’s, I want Victor, I don’t want you. Yeah. And I, I, I have to work very, very hard because, uh, I don’t wanna, I, I want to see something I, I, I don’t wanna to see the second shooter.

I don’t want, I want be part of the team. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Erika Lax: And Victor start to, to push me. To, to, okay, Erica, if you want this, you want to make good photos, but you have to find your, your way, your photography that people have to discover. 

Justin: People have to find you. Yes. Because of you. Yeah, 

Erika Lax: exactly. Not because I am the second in shooter of Victor.

Yeah. And start to win some awards or something like that. Because the people start to, oh, okay, yeah, this guy is good, is I can trust to if she see me. Can you stay here? I am still here because of the first years is no, I don’t want to, to, to, [00:08:00] no. I don’t trust you. Victor. Victor tell me, I hired Victor. I didn’t hire Victor’s wife.

Yeah, yeah. It was very hard. Um, now, no, now I am, I am very proud of, of what kind of photography I make. The, the, the couples trust me and three years ago. We changed our brand because the first brand was only Victor Lax. Yeah. And now it’s lax, uh, Victor and Ika because now I am proud to be part of the, of the brand.

Uh, because when I told Victor about business or something like that, now it’s 50 50. 50. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Erika Lax: And the first years is, uh, maybe, Hmm. 17 or 80, and now we are in the same. You’ve 

Justin: taken a more, a more pivotal role. 

Erika Lax: Yes. 

Justin: You stepped into the business. You guys, you guys became 50 50 in the business, and then what changes did, were you able to make?

Like how did you help change the business for the better? [00:09:00] 

Erika Lax: I, I think, um, I start to say no. Some couples, I know that it’s very, hmm, but for. For the kind of clients that we want. Uh, I told Victor, if you want this kind of Collier, we have to start to, to start to say no to other couples because if you want to, to, to find this, no, say this, this, um, uh, destination, wedding photo photographer or something like that.

We, we, we have to build this kind of, uh, image. When we start with Victor, uh, we always say yes, all the couples and, and sometimes, uh, Victor, when we saw on the other, uh, colleagues is, wow, this wedding is amazing. The couples is amazing. Why we don’t have this kind of club couple, and I, I say Victor, because they, um, start to say no to the [00:10:00] couples that they don’t want to, to fedra for why this is, this is not.

Not good for our business because we start to lose some capitals. Okay, Victor, we have to, to take risk and start to say no. All these couples that do don’t feel, uh, feel, uh, comfortable. The first years was very hard because in the middle of the year we have only 10 weddings and was very scared for, for, yes.

Because Okay. Ika, I say a lot of couples, no, we don’t have weddings for this year, but at the end was the best year of the, of, of our life. Yeah. Because we have, uh, really nice couples and these couples, uh, help us to start, uh, and it was stepping our business because our couples was, will be very higher or Yeah, like a higher end couple.

Yeah. Yes. And the couples. Trash in our style. Not only the name of, uh, Victor Lax because sometimes couples only want to [00:11:00] book us because it’s Victor la Yeah. Not for the style or not for, it’s, it’s only Victor la But when we are in the wedding, sometimes I, I don’t want to do this or I don’t wanna, no, I don’t like you are 

Justin: you hired Victor lax, but you’re not getting the Victor Lax experience.

And 

Erika Lax: now this, these kind of things don’t ha, don’t, don’t, don’t happen because the people know who is uh, um, who I am. Okay. And trust us everything and our Instagram or our website reflect, uh, our way that we shooting or something like that. And this is the first step that take, take risks and say no and start to, to find the, this kind of client that.

Bring us all that, that we have now. 

Justin: I love this and I wanna, I want us talk more about this because I think this is important. It’s always so hard to say no. 

Erika Lax: Yes. 

Justin: How do you, how did you guys basically decide, what couple was your [00:12:00] couple, were you looking for people? Like what qualifies somebody as a good couple to you?

Erika Lax: So the venue, because for us it’s important to know the background or. Because I am marketed and Victor, uh, is very creative, and sometimes we need something, something extra. We need, uh, uh, a new places or, or something like that. This, the venue is one of the. The points of we start to say yes or no. And other is the couple is the couple tries us, uh, say, uh, send us a super email that they know about, about us.

Everything. This is good. 

Justin: Mm-hmm. 

Erika Lax: And the couples that, that sometimes, uh, we say no is, uh, the request is, uh, hello, my name is, um, uh, man pepita. I, I don’t wanna to. Uh, you wanna be able, or can you tell me what is the price or something like that? For us, it’s not a good couple [00:13:00] because they only want Victor for, for all the, the, for the name.

And sometimes this is not enough because the experience is, is really not good for us. So. For us, it’s very important, uh, that the place, uh, the venue that if the couple knows us or the couple want, take this kind of creative creativity that Victor and I, uh, normally make. Because sometimes I love the, the weddings, um, for example, Pablo.

Yeah. I love the kind of, of brides or glue because we know that this kind of couple is not for us. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Erika Lax: But it, it’s, it’s difficult, uh, because we laugh and sometimes we are super jealous about this is a amazing wedding, but, and the other hand is okay, but this couples, it is not for me because they don’t want to, to, they don’t want something different.

But now we understand this and for me [00:14:00] is, is the, is the key because now we, we are not frustrated for, for this. Yeah. We know that there are industry for everything, for, for every, everyone. So we have to, to weigh, uh, your, your path or you fi you have to find your your way. 

Justin: You have to have a special connection with couples.

Yeah, exactly. 

Erika Lax: Exactly. They have to 

Justin: want to love your work. 

Erika Lax: Exactly. Not every couple is for every photography. Every photography has this different couple of, of, of. For, for, for, for taking photos. So for me it’s, it is, it’s important to know that, that there are couples that love you and there are couples that they don’t wanna love you.

And you have to, the last, uh, answer answer is, is, is not the couple is, is I am decide if I want to make, uh, his wedding or not. Yeah. Not, not in that, not the other way around. Yes. 

Justin: They’re not, they’re not coming to you. Able to hire you. Yeah, 

Erika Lax: exactly. They’re 

Justin: coming to you to find out if [00:15:00] they’re the good fit and you’re deciding if they’re the fit.

Yeah, 

Erika Lax: exactly. Sometimes after this, the, the meeting, the meeting, it’s, the couple was nice, the venue is nice, but when we finish the meeting is, okay, Victor, I don’t have any connection. And Victor say, okay, it’s the same. We feel the same. Okay. We can do this wedding. Yeah. Because we know that. It’s not a, it is not a good wedding for us.

Justin: Yeah, that’s amazing. I mean, that’s, I feel like, uh, me as a photographer, I get an inquiry. I’m available. They have the money. I’m gonna take it. But that leads to exactly what you’re saying. I have weddings where they don’t really care about the photos. Yes. They, they, whether it’s the venue recommended me or a friend, they just want me.

Erika Lax: Exactly. 

Justin: I want more. 

Erika Lax: Yeah. I 

Justin: want to give them a special set of photos. Yeah. Because But they don’t want it. 

Erika Lax: Yeah. Because Victor is always take telling about we have to be selfish. [00:16:00] I don’t know if the, the, 

Justin: yeah. 

Erika Lax: Because the couple will. The couple need to be happy, but I am the, the most important I am, need to be happy too.

If I am, enjoy during the wedding, the couple bring, bringing to you the, the best of me or because, uh, the couple, trust me, I love the venue. I am super excited or, but if they’re not connect, if the couple don’t do, uh, whatever you want or something like that is at the end it’s frustrating because okay, I have money, but.

Anything. Anything else. So I don’t want these kind of couples, I, I have to, to, to, to tell No, this, this is not for 

Justin: me. So, so how do you qualify a couple? So when, let’s say you get an inquiry, um, you obviously some inquiries, you said you just don’t, you say no, sorry, not available. But if somebody gets on a call with you guys and you sit down and you talk what sort of.

[00:17:00] Things do you look for to kind of validate them, like for the audience at home, if they’re, if they’re looking to really focus in on their ideal client, because I think that’s what we’re talking about. Yeah. So what sort of qualities do you look for for an ideal client? 

Erika Lax: It’s difficult to find the, uh, the perfect, um, client.

But, uh, two months ago we, we have a super good client. We, we are love this, this kind of client clients that trash the first trash in us. Whatever is always yes. Mm-hmm. It’s always yes. Um, when we make something important, tell us before to make this is okay. I don’t want to make, to make the ceremony here.

It is good for you. It’s good for photography. It’s good for, for the light. It’s good. It’s okay. He tries and he knows I want the best for, for him, so they trust and they consult about everything. Uh, the energy in the wedding, the couple was [00:18:00] super nice. They forgot about us and enjoy the wedding. Mm-hmm. And this is, for me, this is super important because sometimes the, the couples are super focused in the, the photographers or something like that, and lose all about the energy, about enjoy the wedding.

So these kind, these kind of couples that, uh, they trust you and okay, it’s, it’s, it’s okay. And they enjoy the wedding, so. The, this is nice. And the, of course, the, the venue, uh, because it’s a good venue. The background is super nice for us to make something creative. So, so for us it is, it’s this know that the couple of trash us and trash in all these things around the wedding, they consult us.

And it is, it’s nice because we start to, to make, uh, some decisions about, uh, before the wedding. Uh, and they enjoy, enjoy the wedding because sometimes the couples are super sad or super flat, and we, we love the, the, the energy because big [00:19:00] part of our photography is, uh, capture moments. So we need, uh, the power of.

Of the people. Yeah. 

Justin: No, that’s very cool. So when you, did you guys come up with like a, an ideal client? Did you like sit down and say, like, back when you decided to say, start saying no, did you sit down and, and make a list of things or did you just go off of feelings, like 

Erika Lax: fulfill feelings? Normally, if we love the, if we love the, the, the couple.

Or something like that is more feelings. The, the, the connection. Yeah. In the, yeah. It’s not so much the, the, the meeting or something like that. If there are connection is good because it’s there, there is not connection. It’s very difficult during the wedding to create something special or something cool because, uh, it’s, it’s not there.

Yeah. It’s not natural and. And we and, and we decide to say no because we know the results. You’re happiness. Yes. Yes. Your 

Justin: results, your happiness, your output. [00:20:00] So that brings me to my next part. So we now you’ve got an ideal client, you’ve said no. How do you change your marketing to, as a brand, to try and find those ideal clients?

Because I think that it’s very easy to say no. Yes. It’s, uh, I can, I can look at, at all the people that I don’t wanna photograph their weddings because they’re not the right fit, and I can say no. But how do you. Then say no to everybody and still or no to many people and really get more business. Did it, was it natural?

Like by saying no to couples, you said you only shot 10 weddings one year. 

Erika Lax: Yes. 

Justin: And did those, those 10 weddings were great weddings for you. Did they kind of market themselves or how did you turn that 10 into more weddings over the next few years? 

Erika Lax: Yes. We, we start this 10th weddings was super nice because, um.

We have a lot of, uh, good photos and [00:21:00] we start to publish this kind of photos in Instagram, in our website. Uh, Victor wins, uh, win a lot of hours with this kind of, uh, of photos and the people start to know the, this part of Victor super creative. 

Justin: You only started to publish all of the. The images on all of the best.

Yes. Creative style, the yes. The direction you want to go. Yes, exactly. 

Erika Lax: And, uh, because in, at the first we publish everything. Yeah. Uh, good for us, good for us, but, uh, not good. Not good KA couples or not? Uh, I don’t know. The, the, I can explain, but 

Justin: they were good photos. But they weren’t necessarily the photos of what you guys were trying to do.

Yeah, exactly. They weren’t the artistic and the Yeah, exactly. 

Erika Lax: Uh, uh, we start to. To publish every day. And, um, and the, the couples start to, to know what kind of, uh, photographers we are. Uh, this is the first point that [00:22:00] I am think that we start to teach about. What kind of clients, uh, need to bring to, to find.

Justin: So you were educating through like social media? 

Erika Lax: Yes. You 

Justin: kind of educated your 

Erika Lax: Yes. You 

Justin: educated your future clients. Yes, exactly. So not the, the, the posts you were making, the things you shared Yes. Were the people that you want Yes. That you directed it towards the people you want to hire you. 

Erika Lax: Yes. Yes.

Normally we make 20, 25 weddings, but Yes. But only publish 10 weddings. Uh, because it’s the best weddings we, we, we, we make, so, so for us, the, yeah, the first step was Instagram. After that, we start to change the website. It’s very risky because some couples say, okay, but you are super creative, but we don’t, you only make this or make, uh, normal for us.

Mm-hmm. It’s okay. Yes, we, yeah. And we lose sometimes couples because they, they don’t want to, to, to have all the wedding. Creates. Yeah. And it’s, no, no, [00:23:00] no. I make the, the other parts, but only show, we only show the, the, the more creative or more creative for us. And sometimes it is good and, and others is not that that much because the people is, okay, I love this, but I don’t want, I want the, the normal couples or the family couples or the details.

And I make all these things, but I don’t show this kind of, of things. That 

Justin: stuff’s not on the website, but Yes. But you do it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that, that’s kind of, I think we covered it. I might have covered it when I talked to Victor, was, is your whole wedding like just Yes, I see the pocket of light or, yeah, exactly.

Exactly. But yeah, and that’s, and that’s great to have that, that knowledge, right? So be able to say, okay. I am going to lose some people. 

Erika Lax: Yes. And we know, we know, you 

Justin: know, you’re gonna lose people. I, 

Erika Lax: we know that our market is super, super small. Maybe on 10% of our, the big community is for us. Yeah. Because our c our style is, is different and specific.

Yeah. It’s very, very specific. And [00:24:00] we know that all the doubles. Don’t like this, kind of, those, those photos. Uh, sometimes the, when we are receive a request from wedding planning is okay. The couple said your style is super good, but not for, for him. And it’s, it’s okay. It’s, I, I understand. I perfectly understand and I am so sad, but I can change for, for this kind of client I am.

Justin: You don’t wanna change. Exactly. Okay. 

Erika Lax: I don’t want to change it. 

Justin: You, you found the way to essentially, I mean, and this is just a guess, but you can kind of prevent burning out. 

Erika Lax: Yes. 

Justin: Or feeling unhappy or just feeling like, oh gosh, I gotta go to another wedding. Don’t wanna shoot. We are 

Erika Lax: now you’re 

Justin: excited.

Yes. Because every wedding, and I saw that so, uh, we, I, we just, we happened to be at your house last weekend, um, and, and Victor had shot away. You got, I think just Victor shot it. Um, the wedding the day before, and he was up until whatever, three or four in the morning, but he was alive, he was happy. He had woke up early [00:25:00] to cook and do all that sort of, but he was happy because he was doing what he loved.

Erika Lax: Yes, 

Justin: exactly. And not going to shoot a wedding. That was just somebody saying, here’s a list of the photos. That’s, that’s what I expect. And, and that’s really cool to be able to, you know, to niche down like that and, and find. The thing that makes you guys happy Yes. In the industry and, and it hurts, right?

Like when you say, no, it hurts. Yeah. 

Erika Lax: Yeah. A lot. 

Justin: It’s tough to say no to money. I actually, you know, like for me that was a big struggle for me. I always, I always kind of just agreed to weddings. Um, I decided last year that I don’t wanna do weddings where they don’t have a first look. Oh, okay. Because for me, I can do it very easily.

But it’s always stressful. Oh yeah. I’m always like, okay, I have to do a lot of things really quickly and I can’t take the time to slow down and get creative and do different things. So I made that decision that if there’s no first look. Or there’s not at least two hours of photos. I can’t do it because I don’t get to do [00:26:00] what I want.

Then I’m spending the whole day like, okay, I need to make time here and here and here and here, and I’m too worried about making sure I cover photos than I am about actually just getting the result that I desire. Yeah. It’s 

Erika Lax: very stressful. Yeah, 

Justin: and that’s, and that’s great to be able to kind of, to pick that thing, you guys found it in the way that you interview your couples.

Yes. The way they communicate with you early on, and that really helped shape how you guys. Have grown your business. Right. And, and when you were doing a bunch of weddings a year, you maybe turned down some, but you might not have been charging as much. Were you able to raise your prices? 

Erika Lax: Ah, yes. Sometimes yes.

’cause of that? Yeah. Yeah. So, 

Justin: because, because you’re so specialized. Yes. You found that specific thing. Nobody does it like you guys. Yes. There’s literally in the world. I’ve never met another set of photographers who do what you guys do. So you were able to really increase that pricing because you do what you do.

Yeah. 

Erika Lax: But yes, we have you. We know that we have to [00:27:00] do. But, uh, we are afraid about, because sometimes we don’t feel the same that the community of photography. Mm-hmm. Because they know about Victor, about us, but sometimes the couples, they don’t know about Victor. Yeah. And, uh, and sometimes, uh, it is difficult to, to, to decide what kind of price is, is, is the best.

And sometimes I push victories. I need to, to, to increase it because I think it, we, we have to. Now we, I think it’s, it is our moment. We are super strong. We have to, to hire our president. Victor sometimes is very scared and it’s, no, Erica, it’s, I don’t want, I don’t want to lose the couple because we are, maybe we is, is very.

It is very high for him. But, uh, now we, we, we are rethinking about all these, uh, prices, prices, lease, and we start to, to talk about the wedding planners and something like that because we need [00:28:00] to, to find the wage to, to increase our price. I don’t know the, the. 

Justin: Well, you, so, so actually that’s an interesting part of the journey.

So you, you, you have your niche. 

Erika Lax: Yes. You 

Justin: have your, your, your 10% of the industry that you kind of take up where you’re so unique. 

Erika Lax: Yes. 

Justin: You found the, the ideal clients. And now it’s how do you create the value to increase the prices? Yes, 

Erika Lax: exactly. And you have to, and you can’t, 

Justin: you can’t kick people away because you have really, you’ve gotten so small, it’s hard to continue.

Erika Lax: Yeah. For us, it’s super risky because the, our niche is very small. Sometimes we, we lose the couples because I am higher or, or, or sometimes, uh, the couple don’t, don’t like our style. So we have a lot. You can narrow it too much. Yes. But, uh, I think now we’re, uh, super strong. Our, our product is, is really, really nice.

Uh, I think [00:29:00] now we are super team, uh, uh, we are making something very, very special or, uh, and I think it’s time to, to, to hire, but we don’t know what, what is the, the way to, to, to, to make this, because. We are afraid about loose. Uh, yeah. 

Justin: So, so to me that is such a cool statement. 

Erika Lax: Yeah. 

Justin: And, and I, and I’ll say it because I think, you know, anyone who’s seen your guys’ work knows how incredible of photographers you are.

And how amazing you talented, but the, 

Erika Lax: but the couples, 

Justin: but the couple, but that’s the thing. That’s what’s so interesting about the statement is that the couples maybe don’t understand it quite as much. Exactly. And that, that to me, for us is such a fear that all of us have. So as, as photographers, it’s very easy to say, yes, I’m worth this much money.

Erika Lax: Yeah, exactly. But then 

Justin: when you sit down with your clients. Set you’re gonna hire that are gonna hire you. It’s very easy to say, [00:30:00] I’m not worth that much money. Exactly. And, and to hear it from, uh, from you two. I mean Victor, I think, correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s like one of the highest awarded photographers from Fearless, from from all over.

He is like, your brand is one of the most known in the photography industries and you are still just like, I would be kind of hesitant, like, can I raise my prices? And Yeah. And that’s a very real thing. Yeah. That we all face as photographers and, and I think, again, just hearing it come from you and not from Victor, because clearly this conversation, you are the business mastermind and he’s no, uh, and so to hear that, that that’s a debate and a thing that you guys are talking about.

Uh, is so interesting to me because like I said, it’s, we hear it all the time. Everybody in the, in the photography industry says, raise your pricess, raise your prices. You can do it. Raise your prices. Your work is good, but, but you guys are the best and you’re still curious. 

Erika Lax: And [00:31:00] there are the others, the couples, the couple, sometimes they don’t have the same.

Value for the photography than the communities. And they, um, want to, to pay wherever. Yeah. But the couple sometimes is they don’t know all the, the, the values or the, um, I don’t know them. The, the, the, the name. But sometimes couples, uh, uh, prefer to spend a lot of money in flowers, in, in the, in the dress, in the venue or something like that than, than the photography.

Justin: Yeah. 

Erika Lax: And it’s difficult to, to, to understand and, and, and try to convince the couple that the photography is very, very important. But some couples is. Okay. I don’t want to pay this. Uh, yeah. And, and for the community of photography, it’s crazy 

Justin: how much money they’ll spend elsewhere. Yeah. Uh, I was actually just talking, uh, not even just talking with someone else about this and how they’ll spend $5,000 on flowers or 5,000 Yeah.

Tell, but then [00:32:00] 2,500 on photography is, is high To them. It’s 

Erika Lax: high. Exactly. This is, it’s super frustrating because sometimes it’s okay, the flowers. When they finish the one that they finish, the flowers will be dead. We, that’s ands photography. Yeah. And the photography. 

Justin: That’s the only thing that will always be there.

We’ll be 

Erika Lax: alive. Uh, and the past of the years will be, uh, more stronger than, than the the first years. Yeah. So for me it’s, it’s very crazy. It is, it’s very difficult to understand these kind of couples that spend a lot of money in thi in things that I am. I am Okay. It’s flowers. Okay. It is, it is good because for, for us it’s if there, during the, the ceremony there are a lot of flowers.

For us it’s perfect because for the photo, it’s piece more beauty or something like that. But, uh. I don’t, I don’t, yeah. It’s the same that, that you tell, they don’t spend a lot of money in flowers. It don’t care. But the photography or videography is, oh, it’s, it’s so expensive. You can make a, a discount or something like that is No, I, and that, that [00:33:00] is, 

Justin: this is so interesting to me because like I said, I mean, I can look at your work.

As a photographer, and I can say worlds apart from everyone, anyone else. And it sounds like you’ve been able to narrow your clients down to people who can look at your, look at the work and say, that is unlike anything else I’ve ever seen. You really found the ideal client and everybody, but at the same time we all still face the same Yeah.

Struggle, which is Yeah, the same. The same. How do you earn more, how do you convince them of your value? Yeah. Beyond that. And I think that’s such a a, a great conversation. Yeah. And I feel like. We’re gonna be having this conversation again. We’re gonna have to do a follow up podcast when you figure it out, because I think it’s such a good, so many of us are still trying to figure it out.

Yes. It’s, and, and again, to have the Goliaths of the industry like you guys in that same position, I think it, it makes me feel more comfortable that I still struggle with it. I think it’ll make a lot of people Yeah, make the same problems 

Erika Lax: in the different steps. Yeah, we have the same, the same, the same problems, the, [00:34:00] the, to hire, the, the, the best wedding.

And, and this year, uh, we, we focus in, into, to, to talk about, uh, to talk a lot with wedding planners, because now I think the, the bigger role in the industry of wedding planners, I, of the weddings, the, the wedding planner are super important. The, the wedding plans decide what kind photographer. For this wedding, what kind of flowers?

What kind of, if the wedding planner say no, this photo of a note, the couple trash has. So now I learn a lot about talking with wedding planners because now I start to understand the way that the industry, uh, start to, to go. Um, and it’s, wow, we have to work a lot because, uh, now we have to be in love with a couple and with a wedding planner and there, it’s, it 

Justin: keeps getting more, [00:35:00] more pieces.

Erika Lax: Yeah, it’s very difficult because sometimes, uh, the wedding planner love your work, but the couple not, and he trash to, to, to introduce you, but the couple don or, or is in the other way. So now we have, uh, three or four. But 

Justin: all the pieces are coming together because 

Erika Lax: it’s, I think now that weddings are more complex, we have to work more for high, uh, for higher, the, the weddings, uh, because I think the, the level of the, the, the quality of the photography is, is higher than.

The last years. So I think the bar is raised every year. Yes, for sure. I, I noticed that. Uh, uh, and we love to, to compete with other, we love compete with the quality of photography. With what, whatever. Yeah. But we don’t love to compete for money. Example, I love to compete for the photography. If the couple love.

Um, to photography for the photography for, for the quality of photography. It’s okay if [00:36:00] the couple decide to, to go with the, the, 

Justin: they found, they found something that spoke to them more elsewhere. That’s good. It’s 

Erika Lax: okay. But 

Justin: not when it’s a pro, not when it’s like, Hey, I, I found their less money, so I’m gonna go with that.

That’s, this is, but then again, that’s not your ideal client. Exactly. Exactly. 

Erika Lax: It is, it’s not my client as, 

Justin: yeah. 

Erika Lax: Um, but yeah. 

Justin: That’s amazing. 

Erika Lax: Speed. 

Justin: This was so, so enlightening, so informative. I mean, it’s been, it’s been so awesome chatting with you again. The mastermind behind Yeah. The brand. No, which is it?

It it’s a huge brand. I mean, like I said, everywhere we go, people hire you. I’m always so excited, uh, to, to see everything you guys post. It’s always so innovative and creative and beautiful, uh, and being able to learn just a little bit more about how you guys found. The way to be happy doing what you love, uh, and not necessarily just taking on the weddings because it’s a paycheck.

And that’s so, so good and so informative. Uh, thank you for taking the [00:37:00] time. This has been amazing. Uh, we’re so excited. I know you have a ton of speaking engagements coming up where you’ll talk more about all of this and we can’t wait to, to communicate or we can’t wait to chat with you, uh, soon and see you around.

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